What is the importance of the MIR (Movement of the Revolutionaty Left) in the present situation?
To my knowledge no other organisation of the new vanguard in the world plays a role comparable to that of the MIR in Chile. This understanding provides the framework for tackling the question of the MIR.
The MIR was horn from two currents: first Castroium, and secondly Trotskyism, through the intervention of some of our comrades who were among its founders. Furthermore, the MIR is obviously what it is today as the result of three years exceptionally rich experience of the class strugle. Even if the MIR has still not broken with its Castroist origins, it has, unlike other organisations with the same origins been confronted through its daily mass work with the central problems posed in the building of a revolutionary party based on the worker und peasant masses.
However, the response of the MIR, and of the leaders of its mass front organisations, has never risen above the merely empirical. For instance, they hav no clear understanding of Stalinism as a phenomenon with historical roots, with the particular consequences that has in the Chilean context (specific characteristics of the reformist road projected by the Communist Parly, nature of the bureaucracy in the working class movement and its relationship to the class: This empiricism has been particularly noticeablein the MIR'S positions on international questions -its failure to understand the role and nature of the bureaucratic regimes in the various workers states, tor mnstanco, has led to a confused and crippling eclecticism.
Having said this, one must add that in its work in mobilising and winning a base among the worker and peasant masses the MIR has taken a series of initiatives over the last three years which have gone well beyond the reformist limits laid down by Popular Unity, and which have very often been correct. There must be a detailed discussion of these, not in this interview but in the course of a public debate with the MIR, That is why, in spite of the enormous limitation imposed on its militants by the lack of a proper democratic centralist practice and the absence of any real debate on strategy, the experience of the MIR represents an important gain for the Chilean vanguard.
What conclusions would you draw about the acuvicy ol revolutionary marxists in Chile today?
Fust of all, the gain which the experience of the MiR represents is all the more important because the MIR has so far come through the apression relatiwly well: and that's a pretty Important test. The MIR and its leadership are Sus Faced with considerable responsibilities. Is in every other country, the building of a revolutionary party which can assume the cadership of the working class will be a long drawn-out process marked by crises and reproupments, in direct relation to the develop -ment of the class struggle. The MIR may well play a determining role as far as the rhythms and forms of this process are concerned -but whether as a driving force or as a brake it is impossible to tell precisely in advance. But because of the position it has gained, the policies and activity of the MIR will in the Immediate future have considerable repercussions, not only among the extreme left but on the whole of Chilean politicat life IPis therefore an important element in determining the attitude which should be adopted by revolutionary marxists.
The other element is our own situation, politically and organisationally. The Chilean Trotskyist militants are few in number. Wę are a Trotskyist nucleus' rather than an organisation In the last two years we have made significant rains, both political and organisational. But our forces are still very weak in comparison with the importance of the extreme left in Chile. Moreover, the repression has bit ul very hand: more than twenty, 22 to be exact, of our militants are being hold, and there are others of whom we have no news.
Up till now the MIR has had an attitude not of hostility but of inditference towards the other which is taking place in its ranks and with other groups is mainly focussed around practical questions based on an exchange of experienoes. Thatis one positive aspect of its empiricism. IE is therefore on the basis of our own actinity that we hope to establish the conditions for a serious debate, a necessary confrontation with the MIR Going on from your relations with the MIR, what is your own position and what are your perspectives in the present situation? From what I said befure, we obviously start with a considerable handicap. But at the risk of appearing over optimistic, 1 would say that despite the tragedy of the present situation it does open up a new development. one where whele sections of militant workers, students and peasants are trying to break out of the present confusion in search of a consistent, overall explanation of what has taken place In Santiago, in Valparaiso where some of our comrades have a real base, particularly in the working class-members of the left wing of the Socialist Party, of MAPU (Movement Tor United Popular Action), sometimes even of the CP have been asking us questions and having discussions with is. The traumatic experience which they have gone through in the last few weeks has made them very cynica! and suspicious, most of all as far as their former leaderships are concerned, It will be up to us to - win them over in the next period through our bold and serious initiatives.
On the central questions involved, I would like to add one more thing before finishing. The Chilean vanguard, of which the most important compunent is the MIR, is distinguished from ¡them by its limited and superficial understand. ing of the importance of proletarian Intomationalism, In the situation where we now find ourselves, this will be felt hy the most serion militants. The world-wide movement in solidari ty with the struggle of the Chilean people is ar important factor, but it will los some of its offectiveness and usefulness if the material soLidarity is not supplemented by a common, worked-out political orientation. As we know to our cost, the international solidarity of the hourgenisie is only too real. In the same way, that of the Communist Party and those sections which support it is real and will be an important factor in the situation.
The Fourth International must therefore be at the forefront in all the tasks of revolutionary solidarity, without falling into citber of the twin evils of opportunism or secturianism. We will be judged and Listened to on the basis ol our concrere activity, buth in Chile and elsewhere-we cannot repeat this nough. The organisation of solidarity with the Chilean workers is just such a concrete activity, on the basis of which we will be judged. Going beyond temedrate results this could make an invahable contribution, decisive in the long term, to bringing about a clarification in the ranks of the Chilean vanguard and achieving the socialist revolution in Chile, towards which, in spite of the recent defeat, we are steadily advancine Luis Vitale held According to the most recent information, 22 Trotskyist militants are being held by the Chilean junte while a further seven have disappearad land are presumed dead!. Among those hold is Luis Vitale, wall known revolutionary militant and Marxist writer, who Is currently in the National Stadium in Santiago. Vitale, who came originally from Argentina, was a leader of the Chilean POR (Revolutionary Workers Party in the early 1960s, and took part in setting up the MIR in 1966. He was one of Its inaders until 1969, when he left to sat up the Revolutionary Front. Following the alactoral victory of Papular Unity, he was the first of the militants of the revolutionary left to recognise that a pre-revolutionary situation was opening up, in a public speech on 9 September 1970 to the students and teachers of the University of Concepcion.
At the and of 1972, Vitale took part with a section of the Revolutionary Front in a regroupment of the Chilean revolutionary marxists, which led to the creation of the Revolutionary Socialist Party in collaboration with the comrades of the Ravolutionary Detober Tendency.
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The following interview took place in Santiago on Tuesday, 16 October